NTFS-3G for Mac OS X
For the past five or six weeks, users have found this unwelcome text upon finding this page:
Apologies to everyone, but I need to take this page off the web for a short while.
“A short while” has become “indefinitely.” NTFS-3G for Mac OS X is dead. I’ve posted more information in my post entitled “Bad news on the doorstep.”
There will be no further updates to this post.
Please follow my NTFS keyword for any more NTFS-related information. I also have keywords for MacFUSE and Mac Filesystems if you’re interested in the technical ramblings that will come later.
I have republished archived copies of the original post and the performance notes. They exist as a source of information and nothing more—all non-required download links have been removed. The patches to NTFS-3G and libublio are still available.
It’s been quite a ride, folks. I regret that I must abandon this package, but as I mention in the referenced post, I will do my best to guarantee that someone picks up where I must leave off.
Respectfully,
Comments (Add)
Posted by Rommel at 10:29 PM, March 10, 2007:
Have you thought about hosting the files at sourceforge? I don't think there are any development in there in this area.
Posted by bijelo at 2:45 PM, March 11, 2007:
Hvala ti puno!
:-)
Posted by scameronde at 10:03 AM, March 13, 2007:
The package is very well done. Installation and usage is straight forward.
Posted by Saivert at 1:52 PM, March 13, 2007:
Posted by Jakob at 4:34 PM, March 13, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 9:13 PM, March 13, 2007:
Posted by {Lucid} at 6:00 PM, March 14, 2007:
Link: Here
Posted by Jim at 6:28 AM, March 17, 2007:
myself tho i'm having problems on my old G4 PowerBook, namely, i have an 8GB usb flash stick, and when it mount's, finder reports zero bytes available, while disk utility shows the correct sizes... relaunching finder solves that problem tho, but then when copying things to/from the drive, we're talking at the speed of about 10KB/s, as in Kilobytes...
...i'm thinking its probably got to do with the fact that i've got a PPC cpu, since ntfs-3g seems to be created for x86 systems initially, and specially cause it works great on my friend's macbook...
just wondering if you've ever heard of something like this before :)... and if future versions might work solve this issue if so...
thanks :)
Posted by BabelFishSoup at 7:08 AM, March 17, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 2:35 PM, March 18, 2007:
Furthermore, it's murder on the lifetime of a USB drive to use NTFS over FAT32---NTFS requires many more writes, so your device will "burn out" sooner than with FAT32.
The Finder problem has been around for a while, but I no longer see any problems with the latest packages. Unfortunately, I have no PPC machines to test it with. It's probably speed-related, but there's nothing I can do about that.
Posted by Ken at 10:56 PM, March 18, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 12:15 PM, March 19, 2007:
I've updated the instructions, so please try those again. Also, are you sure you have the .ntfs-readonly file and that it's not a dirty volume? (See the second half about Windows and clean unmounts).
Posted by Andy Capon at 5:25 AM, March 21, 2007:
I get one problem though, OSX now takes quite a while to shut down.
The desktop closes, then after about 10 seconds the little spinning icon thin apears, then about 20 seconds after this it shutsdown.
Any idea what the problem may be.
Thanks
Andy
Posted by Paul at 12:18 AM, March 22, 2007:
Make sure you have the latest MacFUSE (0.2.2), but past that I don't know how to help. MacFUSE Tools is supposed to help alleviate the problem. Make sure you have a program called "fuse_daemon" running while your system is on.
On first installation, "fuse_daemon" isn't launched, but it should be run when booting thereafter. Just some thoughts.
Posted by Emmanuel at 10:42 AM, March 22, 2007:
I'm sad that the performance of NTFS-3g on OS X is reported to be so bad (~10MB/s over IDE/SATA and ~1MB/s over USB2? Gah!), but hopefully that will improve shortly. Nonetheless, it seems to be the best (the only?) game in town for read/write access to NTFS volumes on OS X.
/me gets on my free software moral high horse
The line after the warranty, "Such is the price we pay for free software," should probably read, "Such is the price we pay for using software."
Microsoft, Sun, Apple; none of them are going to compensate you if one of their filesystem drivers exhibits a bug that causes you data loss.
I imagine this was simply an offhand comment, so pardon me if the above comes across snarky or defensive.
Also, this certainly isn't directed to you personally, Paul; I just couldn't let it pass unremarked.
/me gets back down off my free software moral high horse
Posted by David Davidsson at 6:43 AM, March 24, 2007:
After installation the volumes I had been able to read (ie my NTFS volumes) didn't even mount!
I tryed all I could imagine to get those to mount, tryed all your instructions, and finally they mounted ... but still as unwriteable as ever.
Perhaps the biggest problem I've got is that I cannot understand the first part in your instructions how to find the BSD device - I haven't got a clue what it is - let alone finding it.
Perhaps I am this dim - but not unusually so.
Can some kind person plese help me!
David Davidsson parffait1@mac.com
Posted by non at 6:47 AM, March 24, 2007:
Was installing macFUSE and NTFS 3G from separate dmg but for some reason NTFS 3G keep not necognizing that I have just installed macFUSE.
Your bundle package solved this and now I have access to my Windows NTFS. Love you man, and love the team.
Show me the money Jerry. Show me the money :)
Posted by non at 7:08 AM, March 24, 2007:
Posted by Chano at 12:02 PM, March 26, 2007:
Works great.
Posted by mrdale at 10:25 AM, March 30, 2007:
Help? PPC.
Posted by Paul at 11:42 AM, March 30, 2007:
Thanks for the heads-up.
Posted by Dale at 2:35 PM, March 30, 2007:
Posted by Donat at 7:47 AM, April 04, 2007:
Posted by recipher at 12:22 PM, April 04, 2007:
Posted by gavagai at 4:46 PM, April 05, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 10:11 PM, April 05, 2007:
If you're trying to install it anywhere else, it will fail intentionally. Also, you don't install it on the NTFS volume (just in case that's what you were trying to do). Otherwise, it's a problem with Apple's installer framework.
Make sure you pick the only volume with a green arrow, and you should be OK. If there aren't any green arrows, then something else is wrong, but it's not this particular package.
Posted by Wike Apryanto at 9:02 AM, April 06, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 4:19 PM, April 06, 2007:
To make sure it's running, run this from the terminal:
sudo launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.google.filesystems.fusefs.plist
Posted by Wike Apryanto at 12:50 AM, April 07, 2007:
many thanks in advance
Posted by Paul at 4:43 PM, April 07, 2007:
Posted by Wike Apryanto at 12:35 AM, April 08, 2007:
Posted by Lance E Sloan at 6:50 AM, April 10, 2007:
Better yet: Why not work together with Amit Singh and other MacFUSE folks? Together, you could combine sshfs, ntfs, and the tools into one package with a (improved?) GUI interface and uninstaller.
Posted by alex at 5:30 AM, April 22, 2007:
Posted by Tiago Veloso at 11:22 AM, April 22, 2007:
Can some one tell meif the USB 2.0 external drives tranfer speed is any better?
Posted by Paul at 12:53 PM, April 23, 2007:
We're just now getting back to school, so I'll probably get around to building the new version(s) tonight or tomorrow. Time will tell.
Posted by XY$ at 6:25 PM, April 25, 2007:
I have managed to mount a Windows NTFS partition as r/w and to chenge its icon ... beautiful.
Now I would like to have it done automatically every time I reboot.
How to do it?
I tried to modify fstab file with the same commands but it did not work. It still mounts as disk0s3 in /Volumes/untitled
Thanks
XY$
Posted by Paul at 10:35 AM, April 26, 2007:
Hope that helps.
Posted by Billifer von Raptor at 8:25 AM, April 27, 2007:
I've updated the mirror that I'm hosting at http://paxoo.com/downloads/ntfs-3g/ with the latest version. If you'd like to list it on your main page as a mirror, please do. I've got terabytes of bandwidth available.
-Billy
Posted by Vish at 7:46 PM, April 27, 2007:
Posted by morpheus2902 at 3:26 AM, April 29, 2007:
I'm a relative newbie so please excuse me if there is a really simple solution to this problem.
I have a Macbook and am trying to open read/write access on my Maxtor external.
I had read-only access before I installed this distribution, but now I can't see my external hard drive, meaning that it doesn't mount at all as far as I can see.
Do I need to do something manually? It appears again when I uninstall the NTFS-3G...
Thanks in advance for your time and help!
Posted by morpheus2902 at 3:49 AM, April 29, 2007:
Posted by xSmurf at 4:23 AM, April 30, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 11:49 AM, April 30, 2007:
Yes, the startup disk selection is a known side-effect of using NTFS-3G. There's nothing that can be done about it, other than opting to disable NTFS-3G via the .ntfs-readonly file.
Posted by Bertrand at 6:41 AM, May 03, 2007:
It work's fine until a test to mount the drive in Virtual PC 7.1 - Writing speed is much better in VPC(about 4x). But suddenly my mac shutdown. And then it allways shutdown in about one or ten or twenty minutes, whitout any message it allways shutdown. I've desintall all the packages from the .pkg files and the nightmare continue, my mac shutdown without any reason, at any time...
Posted by Augustin at 1:09 PM, May 05, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 2:39 PM, May 07, 2007:
i installed (0.2.5, 1.417) and the automount doesn't work.
in disk utility, i click to 'mount' and in the log it logs this: 'Mount of “PORTAL” succeeded'
but the driver PORTAL isn't mounted at all!
i used the terminal mounting command resulting the same: success. How can i read the error message???
how can i fix this problem?
Please, help me: imre.fazekas@gmail.com
Posted by Matej at 8:42 PM, May 07, 2007:
Posted by Matej at 8:51 PM, May 07, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 2:46 AM, May 08, 2007:
Now that I've fiddled with the performance patches, the update is out (1.417-r3), and your problems should be fixed as well. Hope that helps!
Posted by Matej at 6:09 AM, May 08, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 3:26 PM, May 08, 2007:
(10.4.9 osx if it matters)
Posted by Paul at 7:56 PM, May 08, 2007:
I've seen a few problems that were solved by rebooting Mac OS X after installing a new version of NTFS-3G.
If neither of these fix the problem, send me an email and I'll see if I can figure out what might be causing it. I've never seen a problem like what you describe, though, so I'm perplexed.
Posted by Imre at 10:24 PM, May 08, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 11:08 PM, May 08, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 2:54 AM, May 09, 2007:
Posted by loco.ped.admin at 8:41 AM, May 09, 2007:
Posted by Augustin at 11:52 AM, May 09, 2007:
The last April version has not the first two small bugs.
Anyway the working speed with the NTFS mounted volumes is ok.
Posted by Paul at 3:35 PM, May 09, 2007:
@augustin: Thanks for the notices. I don't know what's causing the 1st bug. I can reproduce it on my machine. I suspect it's related to using /dev/rdisk devices, but that's required to improve the performance.
The second bug I can only reproduce occasionally. Sometimes Finder is notified properly, and sometimes it isn't. It's likely a hazard of MacFUSE treating all volumes as network mounts, but the problem isn't in the NTFS-3G code from what I can see.
For your third problem, just create the .ntfs-readonly files on the desired volumes. Do that by opening Terminal.app, and typing "touch '/Volumes/My NTFS Volume/.ntfs-readonly'" (without the double quotes), and that will take care of it.
Posted by loco.ped.admin at 6:39 AM, May 10, 2007:
Listing of my Receipts directory
Error I'm receiving from the installer.
Posted by Louis at 7:47 AM, May 10, 2007:
But you should probably use /Library/Filesystems instead of /System/Library/Filesystems which is supposed to be Apple-only
Posted by Louis at 7:59 AM, May 10, 2007:
You have MacFUSE core installed, but not MacFUSE tools.
@paul
I think that the need for MacFUSE tools is confusing. You should probably propose only one dmg, which would contain a mpkg that installs both MacFUSE tools and NTFS-3G.
By the way, the version numver of MacFUSE tools (0.2.5) is not synchronised to the latest MacFUSE core (0.3.0), and this could be made more explicit.
Posted by loco.ped.admin at 9:23 AM, May 10, 2007:
Posted by Matej at 12:05 AM, May 11, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 10:39 AM, May 11, 2007:
@louis: I know it should go in /Library/Filesystems. I tried that first (being the "proper" location), but for some reason, DiskArbitration only searches /System/Library/Filesystems.
I split the software into two packages, because I thought the Tools might be useful on their own, separate from NTFS-3G. A meta-package is probably a good idea, so I'll take a look at getting that done for the next release.
Posted by Matej at 11:43 AM, May 11, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 11:53 AM, May 11, 2007:
Posted by Jae-wan at 5:02 PM, May 11, 2007:
Yes, there are bugs (The eject bug), but I can put up with it since there's a workaround, and the performance improvements pretty much outweights that inconvenience. Thanks Paul for all your work =)
Posted by Sebastián at 7:30 PM, May 11, 2007:
Posted by mrelwood at 5:30 AM, May 12, 2007:
I tried several combinations of Core, NTFS-3G Tools and NTFS-3G. I settled with the latest of all (Core 0.3.0, NTFS-3G 1.417-r3 (Full)). During all this my the internal NTFS partition (Bootcamp 1.2b) ended up as read only. I ofcourse uninstalled everything (and rebooted) before installing the current setup.
Unmounting and remounting from Disk Util does not help, unmounting and rebooting does not help. Should I mount the partition from Terminal somehow?
I'm advanced with computers, but I'm novice with a Mac.
Posted by Paul at 6:20 PM, May 12, 2007:
For example, if you unplug an external drive without properly Ejecting it, this could happen. This can also happen when Windows crashes.
See this answer for more information.
Posted by mrelwood at 2:56 PM, May 13, 2007:
I guess I didn't take the "boot into windows TWICE" seriously enough. Problem solved!
Posted by Imre at 11:34 PM, May 14, 2007:
i had to connect my drives through usb to the xp than remove it in tray bar, and that's all!
ntfs writing is ok.
there is an issue about character coding. i'm using hungarian xp, and i can't read the files with names containing national characteres.
Posted by Augustin at 3:15 AM, May 17, 2007:
Posted by Augustin at 3:18 AM, May 17, 2007:
Posted by stupbi at 10:42 AM, May 19, 2007:
Unfortunately I can't use it. This might be caused by me using version 0.3.0 of macfuse. As I need MacFusion for ftp write access I can't downgrade to version 0.2.5. I hope this get fixed and I will be able to enjoy ntfs write access on my mac, too.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by alex at 6:37 AM, May 20, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 4:19 AM, May 23, 2007:
i installed version macfuse tools 0.3 and ntfs3g 1.5.. and the ntfs volumes were mounted as Windows NT File System, so by the built-in read-only mac driver.
How can i fix this?
Posted by Imre at 6:04 AM, May 23, 2007:
"kextload: /Library/Extensions/fusefs.kext loaded successfully"
and it is read-write mounted. Why it is not mounted automatically by NTFS-3g? It is mounted by the build in mac driver....
Posted by Imre at 6:05 AM, May 23, 2007:
"kextload: /Library/Extensions/fusefs.kext loaded successfully"
and it is read-write mounted. Why it is not mounted automatically by NTFS-3g? It is mounted by the build in mac driver....
Posted by Imre at 6:29 AM, May 23, 2007:
Posted by Markku at 7:38 AM, May 23, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 7:43 AM, May 23, 2007:
Posted by Markku at 7:59 AM, May 23, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 11:24 AM, May 23, 2007:
All the binaries are there, I just seem to have broken the wrapper somehow. I've got to work today, but I'll take a look at it tonight and try to fix my gaffe.
Posted by Markku at 4:57 AM, May 24, 2007:
Posted by stupbi at 3:54 AM, May 25, 2007:
I'm using the latest ntfs3g package and a NTFS USb Stick. The Stick just won't mount. I can see in disk utility the device and it's format "Windows NT Filesystem 3G". I tried all tips/tricks suggested under the FAQ's without success. Doing CHKDSK in Parallels didn't help. Mount manually via terminal just gave me a " /dev/disk1s1 mounted" while disk1s1 is indeed the stick.
What Am I doing wrong?
Posted by Alex at 9:27 AM, May 25, 2007:
It would be helpful if you put up a "here's how to make it work" section, either for newbies or for those (like me) who've been reading the gobs of information around the various posts and sites.
I have a couple of suggestions:
* why bother having the MacFuse-Tools image if you don't need it since the NTFS-3G package you provide includes the MacFuse-Tools info
* I tried installing the NTFS-3G package first, but it complained about not having the MacFuse-Tools package. After I installed MacFuse-Tools and Macfuse-Core, i noticed that the NTFS-3G package had a "custom" button which may have let me install MacFuse-Tools first. This wasn't particularly obvious.
* Since i installed MacFuse-Tools by hand using the package you provided, i had to go get MacFuse-Core per the MacFuse-tools readme. If I had used the single NTFS-3G package with the custom option, would i have needed to get the MacFuse-Core package (or would everything have come in with the NTFS-3G package?).
* After getting everything installed, I mounted my disk (a Firewire/USB external disk) and it came up read only. I then thought that it required manual mounting, so I unmounted it and followed instructions as per http://forums.applenova.com/showpost.php?p=432791&postcount=11. Unfortunately, none of this worked, i was having various problems permissions problems. Turns out all i had to do was reboot after installing NTFS-3G and everything works perfectly now. Automatic mounting works great. I'm a very happy camper. So, my request is at the top of this page have a "HOWTO" section or something like that, e.g.:
+ download Blah
+ run blah
+ reboot
+ mount like this
+ ta-da, you're done, go forth and read/write files.
Posted by Benihana at 1:39 PM, May 25, 2007:
Posted by Silver-tongued Devil at 7:21 PM, May 25, 2007:
By the way, I don't know if it is blogger.com or your personal site, but I hope you will please ditch your geo-loader. I am located in China but I don't want your geo-loader to give me a Chinese language page unless I ask for it. Those geo-loaders should only be used for gathering marketing data; give us our choice of language, please. Thanks.
Posted by stupbi at 4:44 AM, May 26, 2007:
Posted by Benihana at 9:12 AM, May 26, 2007:
Posted by support at 11:36 AM, May 26, 2007:
I had installed MacFUSE 0.3.0 separately/previously and the other key thing I did was put these lines in Terminal:
# Create symlink for mount_fusefs: sudo ln -s /System/Library/Filesystems/fusefs.fs/mount_fusefs /usr/bin/mount_fusefs
# Create a new directory: mkdir /Volumes/Windows
# Mount the NTFS volume: sudo /usr/local/bin/ntfs-3g /dev/disk0s2 /Volumes/”Windows” -o ping_diskarb,volname=”Windows”
I'm at a loss as to how to get back .dmg mounting functionality. I ran the uninstall.command from the NTFS-3g disk image...to no avail. Thanks for any advice/assistance.
Posted by Paul at 10:15 PM, May 26, 2007:
Also, the metapackage shouldn't list dependencies on MacFUSE Tools, since it's included. The Info.plist files I have here don't list such interdependencies, so I don't know where your problem came from...
You all still need the MacFUSE Core package installed first; that's published by Google, so I'm not going to meddle with distributing it.
I don't mention rebooting, but I probably should. It's only necessary after your first install; subsequent upgrades don't need a reboot.
@Devil: Sounds like a long-standing condition with MacFUSE. You might see it occasionally, but I've done everything I can to avoid it.
There's no geo-loader in my template; if someone's doing that, it's Blogger, not me.
@Everyone: Uninstallers are indeed broken. Run the commands using sudo and they will work.
Disk Images still work for me; I even have an NTFS disk image for testing. Can you post more details of how it's breaking? Perhaps try to mount them using "hdiutil attach" from the command line and see what happens?
As for DVDs, if they're regular DVDs (formatted as UDF), NTFS-3G shouldn't be affecting them at all. Unless, per chance, you guys actually have NTFS-formatted DVDs, which is crazy. Try mounting them from the command line and look at /var/log/system.log and maybe with more information I can help you.
Unfortunately, "it's broken, fix it" doesn't help me very much. I'm sorry you're all seeing problems, but it's very hard to debug problems I don't see on my machines... Post more details (or email me, preferably) with output from command-line utilities and /var/log/system.log, and I'll see what I can find.
Posted by enjay at 12:42 AM, May 27, 2007:
Someone found a solution to this issue in the past hours and posted it to several forums related to MacFUSE.
Essentially s/he said that they had to manually remove the individual NTFS files via superuser. Which coincides with your emphasis on sudo uinstall above.
I was not sure how to track down the individual
files belonging to the NTFS-3G distribution so I attempted to run the NTFS-3G Uninstaller with "sudo".
Didn't appear to work so I reinstalled MacFUSE 0.3.0 and then reinstalled NTFS-3G -- to give the uninstaller something to work with ...I navigated to the NTFS-3G disk image directory (which I was able to mount; Toast would probably be
able to mount it as well) and finally ran this in terminal
sudo ./Uninstall.command / NTFS-3G
I restarted to be safe and was once
again able to mount .dmg files.
It is possible that if I had not run the code (in my previous comment) from a Lifehack page that was obsolete, MacFUSE and NTFS-3G would have played nicely. In my haste to have this all working, I put in code that was no longer necessary. Unfortunately, when I'd originally Googled "MacFUSE and NTFS-3G" I came up with that link fairly high .... it was a little too easy to get to!
Course, in case it had nothing to do with this code and is another bug altogether, I am happy to post/send whatever might be helpful.
Unfortunately for me, the only resolution to the .dmg mounting issue was to sudo uninstall NTFS-3G altogether.
Posted by alex at 7:46 AM, May 27, 2007:
When I upgrade to NTFS-3G 1.516.dmg, my Macbook(1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo,OSX 10.4.9 with latest Apple Security Update) can not mount any DVD Disc(CD Disc is working), and when I want to mount MacFUSE-Core-0.3.0.dmg, OSX says "no mountable filesystems!".
Then I remove NTFS-3G 1.516 with command "sudo ./Uninstall.command / NTFS-3G" and manual remove ntfs-3g.fs fold under /System/Library/Filesystems/, all functions is back to work.
Posted by Paul at 3:01 PM, May 27, 2007:
DVDs:
diskutil mount /dev/disk0s3
(replace disk0s3 with the appropriate device name; you can get that information from Disk Utility)
Disk Images:
hdiutil attach -verbose /path/to/my/DiskImage.dmg
Those should give you (and thus, me) more information about what's going wrong.
Posted by Ronald Jones at 8:08 PM, May 27, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 10:19 PM, May 27, 2007:
@Everyone: For those of you using the lifehack.org instructions, they're severely outdated.
Please only install this using the latest packages, which (as of this comment) are MacFUSE Core 0.3.0, and NTFS-3G 1.516.
Posted by Cory at 3:57 PM, May 28, 2007:
As for disk images with hdutil:
Volume check completed…
Mounting…
diskimages-helper: DI_kextDriveGetRequest returned 0x00000025 (37) ((os/kern) object terminated).
Attaching...
Error 108 (no mountable file systems).
Finishing...
DIHLDiskImageAttach() returned 108
CFDictionary 0x31f780 [0xa080a1c0] {type = immutable, count = 0, capacity = 0, pairs = (
)}
hdiutil: attach failed - no mountable file systems
Posted by Paul at 6:41 PM, May 28, 2007:
For debugging disk images, use: "hdiutil attach -nomount /path/to/Image.dmg"
This will let you access the volumes without having it fail because they didn't mount. It will also tell you the device names of all the attached volumes. Once you have the image attached (or a CD/DVD inserted), try the following command:
/System/Library/Filesystems/ntfs-3g.fs/Contents/Resources/ntfs-3g.probe /dev/disk0s3; echo $?
If you see "255" last, NTFS-3G thinks it can mount the specified device/volume. If you see "254," then NTFS-3G says it cannot mount the volume. If you see "1," there's something seriously wrong.
Obviously, replace /dev/disk0s3 with the appropriate BSD device for your problematic volumes or CD/DVDs.
Posted by Cory at 9:11 PM, May 28, 2007:
Posted by Paul at 12:28 AM, May 29, 2007:
I've not seen this problem here, but clearly I need to find a better way of detecting NTFS volumes versus non-NTFS volumes, and having access to one of those disk images might help me find it.
Either email me the disk image, or (preferably) email me a link so I can download it myself. Thanks!
Posted by Maciej at 2:57 PM, May 29, 2007:
Posted by Cory at 3:14 PM, May 29, 2007:
Posted by Alessandro at 6:47 AM, May 30, 2007:
Posted by Imre at 9:29 AM, May 30, 2007: